Friday, May 16, 2008

The essence of a dirty play.


Ingredients:

Find an opposing player not watching behind him.

Know the opposing player is a great threat to your team and has a hurt lower back.

Wait for the player to be in an illegal position to be hit and then lean into an illegal pick as the player is JUMPING in the air.

Make sure that the opposing player is hit EXACTLY where he was previously injured to make sure he feels the maximum amount of pain.

Walk away like nothing happened.

Look at the photo, I'm done, and I am disgusted.

From the NBA rule book: Section X—Screen
A screen is the legal action of a player
who, without causing undue contact,
delays or prevents an opponent from
reaching a desired position.

Would you say the above picture shows undue contact?

Here's the video for the entire play: (from odenized)

30 comments:

Jared said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jared said...

Im sorry, and this isnt the first time Ive asserted this argument, but that is the same as the pick that cleared out Tony Parker in the game before.

That he had a bad back is a simple case of being SOL. Horry shouldnt set picks or screens any softer because he knows a guy is hurt. If West is out there, he better be ready for anything that can happen during a game. Clean, hard, screens included.

The bottom line is that nobody can argue it was a foul (edit- I ment flagrant foul). That his arms were up is just as bad as Chandler's knee coming up into into Parker. If NO and West are worried about his back, its on him to avoid contact, not the other team defending him.

Jared said...

Im sorry, and this isnt the first time Ive asserted this argument, but that is the same as the pick that cleared out Tony Parker in the game before.

That he had a bad back is a simple case of being SOL. Horry shouldnt set picks or screens any softer because he knows a guy is hurt. If West is out there, he better be ready for anything that can happen during a game. Clean, hard, screens included.

The bottom line is that nobody can argue it was a foul (edit- I ment flagrant foul). That his arms were up is just as bad as Chandler's knee coming up into into Parker. If NO and West are worried about his back, its on him to avoid contact, not the other team defending him.

Cortez said...

Jared,

You are 100% percent correct. Tell West to go on the IR if his back is hurt. This whole argument is insane.

"Pardon me sir, is your back bothering you? Yes? Well then...let me refrain from setting a legal screen and allow you the pleasure of prancing in the lane unimpeded so that you don't feel any discomfort."

Get real.

The Review Chick said...

I am sorry but to say that it's David West's fault is stupid.

That wasn't a screen that went wrong. That was a shot at taking someone out and trying to make it look like he wasn't trying to take someone out.

The fact that some of you people don't see that is why millions of kids are hurt in organized sports each year.

You are probably the ones teaching your kids it's okay to hurt an opponent if it means you will win the game.

Wes said...

When you say "clean, hard screens" I assume that you mean that player holds their ground and waits for the player on defense to make contact with *them*.

On this particular play, you can clearly see Horry leaning in to make the contact on West. Definitely not clean.

This would be a non issue if the play occured with Horry stationary, but it is apparent that he wanted to make contact. The only thing that is unclear is Horry's exact intent: set an illegal screen, or attempt to hit West in his injured area.

The Dude Abides said...

Actually, this is a dirty play. It's an illegal pick if you set it while the ball and player are in the air. That's why it was called a foul. What pushes it over the top to make it a dirty play is the act of leaning in while the other player is in the air jumping backward. And of course, the kicker is the Spurs fans chanting "Horry, Horry..." They didn't start the chant until the replay was shown. THEY obviously knew it was a dirty play.

chutneeamerica said...

C'mon, of course it's a dirty play. You ever play a game of basketball? This sort of thing doesn't happen by accident on a court with coordinated, skilled athletes. Robert Horry plays about ten minutes a game for the Spurs nowadays, and when he goes in the game, it's with a specific mission: Hack-a-Shaq, or Hack-a-Tyson, or Hack-a-Melvin, or hip-check-a-Steve-Nash, or, in this case, Put-a-hit-on-a-David-West's-lower-back. It's dirty, of course it is, and of course it's garbage, and of course it doesn't belong in the NBA. And the macho attitude that says "If you don't want to get hurt, don't step on the court," is misplaced. That kind of stupidity belongs in the NFL, not in the NBA. It's a skill game, not professional wrestling. I propose another maxim: "If you can't win without cheap-shots, don't step on the court." Boo on the Spurs, and especially on their fans, for cheering that garbage.

thejerry said...

I found this blog from a link on ESPN and I just wanted to say I couldn't agree more. I'm glad some people are calling it for what it is... a cheap shot. It's the kind of behavior you see from old men on the playground that can't win by playing anymore. Is that what the NBA is reduced to during the playoffs? If so I want no part of it.

I'll try to keep this brief but I'm really annoyed so forgive my ranting. For two years in a row the Spurs have relied on "cheap-shot Bob" to turn the series around for them. And it isn't his superior play (he never had that) but his cheap shots that are giving the Spurs an unlikely advantage. Why isn't he being suspended for a flagrant (unnecessary contact) foul? Sometimes when the NBA sees a pattern of dangerous behavior that reduces the quality of their games they act (like with Rodman, or recently with Kobe's follow through eye-poke on Ginobli), so why can't they come up with a way to protect another great series from an anti-climactic "cheap-shot Bob" finish?

I also like that in the video Ginobli threw the ball off the backboard while Horry was "setting a screen for him". Basically Horry needed to go to the basket, and that's what Ginobli thought was the natural move at that point, not a screen. But instead, Horry saw an opportunity to take out West (a stab in the back, if you will) with a "hard foul" and chose the latter. Real noble. Great play Horry.

RingItUp said...

Good on each and every one of you maintaining that this was a dirty play by Horry. And to those of you who asserted that it was not? C'mon. C'monnnnnn.

It's pretty obvious that Horry ran past West toward the bucket, on what seemed to be an average pick'n'roll with Manu, and then turned around and hammered West. Even Manu thought Horry was rolling and tossed a pass toward him. Unfortunately, this made the situation worse as West then jumped to deflect pass, leaving him more prone than just having his back turned to Horry would have left him.

The reaction of the colour commentator was particularly egregious, however. "I know a bunch of old school guys jumping up and down right now, chanting Robert Horry's name. A clean play, a back screen for [sic] a guy that has had back problems: that's playoff basketball. That's a good, winning play by Robert Horry. No complaints at all."

Seriously? I know the TV crews have to think on the fly and it's not the easiest job but that's honestly what he saw there? A "clean play"?? Why was Horry called for the foul then?

To my mind, that's another example of why colour commentary should not be the exclusive domain of former players (and occasionally coaches). Just because they played doesn't mean their analysis of the game is going to be any good, if not flat out wrong.

Anyone heard Reggie Miller? Every time he speaks, nothing but useless tripe spews forth like so much fatal shit from Beijing sewage plant

Matt said...

Not a dirty play? robert horry has always been the go to guy for taking another player out, whether or not hes hi checking steve nash, throwing a shoulder into david west's lower back setting and ILLEGAL screen. he knew exactly what he was doing, and the fact that HE HASNT been suspended is absurd. im not sayin if this play didnt happen that the hornets would have won. I AM saying that he needs to have the correct discplinary action put upon him, who he did it to doesnt matter, the fact that he DID the act is the point...

senorglory said...

Not a dirty play, a foul, but not a dirty play. Horry set his feet for the screen, but leaned forward in anticipation of contact... and was called for the foul. Good call. If Horry hadn't leaned forward, no foul. McHale clotheslining Rambis-- now that's a dirty play.

senorglory said...

Not a dirty play, a foul, but not a dirty play. Horry set his feet for the screen, but leaned forward in anticipation of contact... and was called for the foul. Good call. If Horry hadn't leaned forward, no foul. McHale clotheslining Rambis-- now that's a dirty play.

senorglory said...

Not a dirty play, a foul, but not a dirty play. Horry set his feet for the screen, but leaned forward in anticipation of contact... and was called for the foul. Good call. If Horry hadn't leaned forward, no foul. McHale clotheslining Rambis-- now that's a dirty play.

senorglory said...

Not a dirty play, a foul, but not a dirty play. Horry set his feet for the screen, but leaned forward in anticipation of contact... and was called for the foul. Good call. If Horry hadn't leaned forward, no foul. McHale clotheslining Rambis-- now that's a dirty play.

Panger said...

I'm with you, ringitup. I was gobsmacked by the commentators and their belabored defense of Horry's play. It was surreal.

James said...

I'm not a spurs fan but c'mon... This is the playoffs!!! The same playoffs where Zeek got a forearm shiver from Magic, where Travis Best came off the top rope on Shaq,(although he got the worst of that). Where Kobe got closelined by Raja. So lets stop with this already. It's unfortunatefor sure, but suggest that this was an attempt "Exactly" devised by Horry to win the series is ridiculous at best...

SilkyJohnson19 said...

Im getting pissed about this. He started to set the damned screen before D. West jumped. Im not saying he didnt know what he was doing, but what the hell do you want him to do? Jump out of the way as David West jumps blindly into his screen?

It isnt a dirty screen just because he cant see it. It's called a damned back screen. His feet werent moving and he leaned into it. His arms were against his body.

Deal with it, damned homers.

The Original MSG said...

hard foul? yes. dirty? maybe. did Chandler do the exact same thing earlier to TP? yes. should either be suspended? NO WAY. side note - who do you think the "dual suspensions" would hurt more, the hornets or the spurs? so hornets fans should think long and hard about lobbying against Horry (and thus Chandler)...

The Original MSG said...

and ringitup - take a look again at the replay...manu's pass was to Finley in the corner (yes, the Hornets were playing illegal D again)

Adrian said...

Utterly hilarious that people are complaining this much about it. There were two picks that were set in the exact same way earlier in this series. Actually, those picks were far worse because those players (chris paul and tony parker) were back peddling as fast as they could before getting sent to the ground via screen by much bigger players. If you remember, the picks set against Parker and Paul were offensive fouls as well for the screener LEANING FORWARD! I guess Tyson Chandler is an evil, evil man for leaning forward on a pick.

Nobody was complaining then. Because D. West has a bad back Horry is supposed to stop playing basketball? Imagine if Ginobili had put the ball on the floor toward the baseline following that (Horry's) screen; He would have gotten an easy layup. Isn't that the point of a screen. So to say Horry was setting the screen for no reason other than to hurt West is ridiculous. That pick served a purpose. It isn't Horry's fault West jumped into the pick because Ginobili decided to pass the ball.

I agree the Spurs cheering "HORRY-HORRY" was classless, I say this as a Spurs fan, but the play itself wasn't dirty. It was just basketball

Adrian said...

Utterly hilarious that people are complaining this much about it. There were two picks that were set in the exact same way earlier in this series. Actually, those picks were far worse because those players (chris paul and tony parker) were back peddling as fast as they could before getting sent to the ground via screen by much bigger players. If you remember, the picks set against Parker and Paul were offensive fouls as well for the screener LEANING FORWARD! I guess Tyson Chandler is an evil, evil man for leaning forward on a pick.

Nobody was complaining then. Because D. West has a bad back Horry is supposed to stop playing basketball? Imagine if Ginobili had put the ball on the floor toward the baseline following that (Horry's) screen; He would have gotten an easy layup. Isn't that the point of a screen. So to say Horry was setting the screen for no reason other than to hurt West is ridiculous. That pick served a purpose. It isn't Horry's fault West jumped into the pick because Ginobili decided to pass the ball.

I agree the Spurs cheering "HORRY-HORRY" was classless, I say this as a Spurs fan, but the play itself wasn't dirty. It was just basketball

Logan said...

Were this an isolated incident in Horry's career, then I could buy the "this is just playoff basketball" argument. But this is the second consecutive year in which he's hit someone and it's becoming very hard to put blinders on and say "boys will be boys."

The hip check on Nash was dirty. This play was dirty. Be glad there are 4 days between that game and game 7, because otherwise West would be out of game 7 and Horry's misdeed would be rewarded. All these Spurs fans show up, and the first thing they cry about is a screen by Chandler in the previous game, that hit a guy from the side. Not the back, not a jumping man, but a man running full speed facing the ballhandler. The screen would have been clean if he hadn't leaned. This screen would have still had the intent to harm even if Horry didn't lean. He leaned to get better position on his dirty hit. It's despicable.

Mary Oliver said...

Here is the one thing that noone wants to talk about, why was West still in the game with the Spurs leading by 21.

That I don't get and how many times have we seen players get hurt we they are being blown out! That was a mistake on Byron Scott's part.

There have been a lot of back screen and picks in this series that have knocked players to the floor and some of them with forearm and knee follow through. Sadly, it is part of the game and you have to deal with it.

The two things I don't like about this whole situation are these:

1. The Spurs weren't taking a desperate shot to stay in the series and to win, they were controlling the whole game and were up by 21.

2. David West is a fantastic player and if he can't go on Monday, it just doesn't make the game as enticing to watch. Hope he plays.

Robert said...

As a fan of both these fine teams, I have to say the argument that this was a dirty play is believable...... for those with the IQ of a typical cocker spaniel - would you like a tin foil hat with that to protect yourself from telepathic aliens as well?
The reffing has been atrocious throughout the series, with ghost foul calls aplenty - while at other instances players are getting hammered with no call at all; this has hurt and helped BOTH teams, although to this point I feel the Hornets have benefitted more. These teams are similar in many ways - in particular, solid physical defense and discipline - as a result, there is plenty of banging going on. I hope West is Ok and plays Monday, but he was banged up on a pretty routine, though solid pick during PLAYOFF basketball..... players expect to give (and take) this during the playoffs, this is nothing new. For those of you still cowering from the danger of the evil dirty Horry, ghosts and the monster under the bed, I can offer some very practical advice 1.) Find a good psychologist! 2.) Context! Any frame can be picked out of video to "prove" a point; download and analyze the entire sequence where Horry picks West and you will see just another pick that has been going on with both teams throughout the series.
Man Up! May the best team win - save all the excuse making and whining or your team might devolve into the next Phoenix - always a reason why it was someone elses fault that they failed. I'm happy with either team winning - just hope game 7 is a classic, tight ballgame with a last second outcome!!

Deaconballs said...

It is easy to scrutinize the situation after the fact. However, I thought it was a typical screen that players will do. Almost everybody leans into their screen. Just because it happened on a player that is injured is just coincidence. If you watch the video Robert kept his arms at his waist and only leaned into. If it was a malicious blow he would have thrown an elbow.

Let them play basketball. This is the playoffs and I want to see people play. Post like this will only lead to the sport turning into a touchy-feely game.

Triple M said...

That was NOT a dirty play. Horry set the pick to get his man (Finley) open, West jumped to steal the pass, se la vie. The only reason it looks malicious is because of the outcome, West hurt his back. If no one gets hurt, would you call that a flagrant foul? It is the same as if a player jumps to shoot and lands on the opponents foot. He gets hurt, but not from any malicious intent (unless the defender is Bruce Bowen, and he kicks your achilles). Anyway, stop crying...NEXT!!

Matthew Roozee said...

I don't think this was a cheap shot. It looks to me like Horry is setting up for the contact with West before Ginobili's pass and West's jump.

What I can imagine Pop saying is something like: "West is hurt right now... if they leave him in, I want a body checking him hard on every screen and every time he goes near the paint. Don't worry about picking up fouls... this game's over... play him really physically. Give him something to think about for game 7."

Is that style of play dirty? Hard to say, but I've seen the same things (and a lot worse) from a LOT of teams in a LOT of situations.

AndrĂ¡s said...

The NBA waits 'till a really serious injury, or worse happens, like the NHL did it (Bertuzzi case).

Notorious D.I.G. said...

Anybody who has played real life basketball, where your coach can take your minutes, knows that you have to set a screen HARD. Horry didn't do anything that he doesn't do on any big-on-big screen. Honestly, you don't make it out of high school without learning how to lean into a screen.